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America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.

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Last edited by chris on Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:40 pm; edited 10 times in total
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 1:41 am
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DWI

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CHRISS!

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Got anymore?


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PostThu Oct 28, 2004 2:04 am
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Jonny2K

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Yep. Sure was a good idea to send thousands of peacetime part-timers over to get involved with this shit. I'm thrilled that I'll have to be (tax)paying for veterans' psychiatric benefits for the rest of my life so that our current Cowboy-in-Chief can outdo his Daddy.
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 2:49 am
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louisemichel

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so, you know what to do. vote.
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 4:57 am
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LordDefile

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Jonny2K wrote:
Yep. Sure was a good idea to send thousands of peacetime part-timers over to get involved with this shit. I'm thrilled that I'll have to be (tax)paying for veterans' psychiatric benefits for the rest of my life so that our current Cowboy-in-Chief can outdo his Daddy.


Jesus H Christ. Are you serious? They've been bitching about Saddam for YEARS.

Face it. The US has somehow become "Team America: World Police". Everytime that something goes down, who gets called? We do.

They have been clamoring about nukes and shit in Iraq for the better part of a decade. Someone finally decides to do something, and he gets a bad label.

Tell ya what. Think about it this way.

On Sept 11 we lost, what, 3000 people? When the death toll in Iraq gets anywhere near that high, THEN start talking about it. I absolutely hate when people start talking about the "part-timers" over. They signed a contract just like every other motherfucker in uniform, and they knew what kind of duties it might entail.

Like this pussy suing to get out of going. While it sounds like his detail is up, that's not the fucking point. He joined to get the benefits, now he should have to put back in...

Peacetime part-timers... Please. :rolleyes
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 9:35 am
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Resurs

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LordDefile wrote:
Jonny2K wrote:
Yep. Sure was a good idea to send thousands of peacetime part-timers over to get involved with this shit. I'm thrilled that I'll have to be (tax)paying for veterans' psychiatric benefits for the rest of my life so that our current Cowboy-in-Chief can outdo his Daddy.


Jesus H Christ. Are you serious? They've been bitching about Saddam for YEARS.

Face it. The US has somehow become "Team America: World Police". Everytime that something goes down, who gets called? We do.

They have been clamoring about nukes and shit in Iraq for the better part of a decade. Someone finally decides to do something, and he gets a bad label.

Tell ya what. Think about it this way.

On Sept 11 we lost, what, 3000 people? When the death toll in Iraq gets anywhere near that high, THEN start talking about it. I absolutely hate when people start talking about the "part-timers" over. They signed a contract just like every other motherfucker in uniform, and they knew what kind of duties it might entail.

:rolleyes


First off, you couldn't be more wrong.
The US didn't somehow become the world police, US took it upon themselves to be the worldpolice. Ever since WW1 when you were off playing with the japs, the rest of the world were taking care of business here in europe. Since then US supposedly felt they needed to make up and stick their nose everywhere.
Second, if there wasn't oil involved, US would be touching these mid east countries with a poking stick.

Second, u didn't gett called, you went there even though the UN firmly said NO. Putz.

There hasn't been any bitching about nukes in Iraq, US made those up to have a reason. None of the search teams found a shread of evidence that Iraq was storing nukes.

Tell you what, the people who died on 9/11 is a fucking piss in the ocean compared to how many people the US army have been slaughtering over the years, I'm surpriced it didn't happen sooner.

Now for the record, I'm no US hating person, but when people put themselves on such horses someone needs to speak up.
Open your fucking eyes!
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 10:39 am
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teachme001012

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You are 100% right. Also I'm sure the death toll in Iraq exceeds what happen on 911. And since when does a death toll number about even matter. We should have gone into war with Afghan and Bin Laden NOT Iraq. We could have controlled Iraq without Bin Laden and better sanctions.


Resurs wrote:
LordDefile wrote:
Jonny2K wrote:
Yep. Sure was a good idea to send thousands of peacetime part-timers over to get involved with this shit. I'm thrilled that I'll have to be (tax)paying for veterans' psychiatric benefits for the rest of my life so that our current Cowboy-in-Chief can outdo his Daddy.


Jesus H Christ. Are you serious? They've been bitching about Saddam for YEARS.

Face it. The US has somehow become "Team America: World Police". Everytime that something goes down, who gets called? We do.

They have been clamoring about nukes and shit in Iraq for the better part of a decade. Someone finally decides to do something, and he gets a bad label.

Tell ya what. Think about it this way.

On Sept 11 we lost, what, 3000 people? When the death toll in Iraq gets anywhere near that high, THEN start talking about it. I absolutely hate when people start talking about the "part-timers" over. They signed a contract just like every other motherfucker in uniform, and they knew what kind of duties it might entail.

:rolleyes


First off, you couldn't be more wrong.
The US didn't somehow become the world police, US took it upon themselves to be the worldpolice. Ever since WW1 when you were off playing with the japs, the rest of the world were taking care of business here in europe. Since then US supposedly felt they needed to make up and stick their nose everywhere.
Second, if there wasn't oil involved, US would be touching these mid east countries with a poking stick.

Second, u didn't gett called, you went there even though the UN firmly said NO. Putz.

There hasn't been any bitching about nukes in Iraq, US made those up to have a reason. None of the search teams found a shread of evidence that Iraq was storing nukes.

Tell you what, the people who died on 9/11 is a fucking piss in the ocean compared to how many people the US army have been slaughtering over the years, I'm surpriced it didn't happen sooner.

Now for the record, I'm no US hating person, but when people put themselves on such horses someone needs to speak up.
Open your fucking eyes!
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 10:59 am
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LordDefile

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Resurs wrote:
LordDefile wrote:
Jonny2K wrote:
Yep. Sure was a good idea to send thousands of peacetime part-timers over to get involved with this shit. I'm thrilled that I'll have to be (tax)paying for veterans' psychiatric benefits for the rest of my life so that our current Cowboy-in-Chief can outdo his Daddy.


Jesus H Christ. Are you serious? They've been bitching about Saddam for YEARS.

Face it. The US has somehow become "Team America: World Police". Everytime that something goes down, who gets called? We do.

They have been clamoring about nukes and shit in Iraq for the better part of a decade. Someone finally decides to do something, and he gets a bad label.

Tell ya what. Think about it this way.

On Sept 11 we lost, what, 3000 people? When the death toll in Iraq gets anywhere near that high, THEN start talking about it. I absolutely hate when people start talking about the "part-timers" over. They signed a contract just like every other motherfucker in uniform, and they knew what kind of duties it might entail.

:rolleyes


First off, you couldn't be more wrong.
The US didn't somehow become the world police, US took it upon themselves to be the worldpolice. Ever since WW1 when you were off playing with the japs, the rest of the world were taking care of business here in europe. Since then US supposedly felt they needed to make up and stick their nose everywhere.
Second, if there wasn't oil involved, US would be touching these mid east countries with a poking stick.

Second, u didn't gett called, you went there even though the UN firmly said NO. Putz.

There hasn't been any bitching about nukes in Iraq, US made those up to have a reason. None of the search teams found a shread of evidence that Iraq was storing nukes.

Tell you what, the people who died on 9/11 is a fucking piss in the ocean compared to how many people the US army have been slaughtering over the years, I'm surpriced it didn't happen sooner.

Now for the record, I'm no US hating person, but when people put themselves on such horses someone needs to speak up.
Open your fucking eyes!


First of YOU couldn't be more wrong.

World War I started with the assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Secondly, Japan declared war on Germany in the first war. America didn't even become involved until almost 3 years after the war had begun.

All taken from this site: http://users.tibus.com/the-great-war/events.htm

Now, what you're trying to refer to is World War II, and unless I'm mistaken, we didn't really become involved in until after Pearl Harbor. At one point during World War II the US even declared neutrality. Two years later Japan bombs Pearl Harbor and we enter World War II.

All taken from this site: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/ww2time.htm#


So, your assesment of things in this matter is incorrect.

Now, onto Saddam. Did I specifically say nukes? No, I just said Saddam. And they have been bitching about him ever since the Gulf War. Have you ever paid attention to some of the sick and sadistic things Saddam and his children did? Uday and Qusay were worse than their father. If you didn't do something for a Hussein, you never did anything else because you were fucking dead. There have been untold hundreds that disappeared from those three.

Now, I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to as far as the "number we've slaughtered over the years". I can really only think of one instance, and that would be the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In those two cases, I would agree. In any other wartime action, I'll disagree. It's war. And look at the number of people that were killed comparatively.

Here are just a few stats on soley american casualties.

http://www.va.gov/pressrel/amwars01.htm

This page breaks down the death toll surrounding Hioshima and Nagaski, the only time that I personally feel a possible wrong decision was made. However, the second link provides a compelling argument on the reasoning behind using the bombs.

Essentially, the article says that the estimated US casualties to invade Japan would have been in the area of 500,000. I would venture to say that Japanese casualties would've been similar, but possibly a smaller number still. The article is very good and makes several very valid points.

http://www.airpowermuseum.org/trafter.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=258


Here is a breakdown of people killed in World War II:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_casualties_by_country

And in World War I for comparative purposes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

But hey, my eyes aren't open or anything.
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 1:22 pm
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LordDefile

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teachme001012 wrote:
You are 100% right. Also I'm sure the death toll in Iraq exceeds what happen on 911. And since when does a death toll number about even matter. We should have gone into war with Afghan and Bin Laden NOT Iraq. We could have controlled Iraq without Bin Laden and better sanctions.



Wrong.

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 1:24 pm
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LordDefile

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Since I can't edit my post, I'll add on. When I first read teachme's post, I thought he meant soldier deaths. If that is the case, then my post is correct.

Now, if he meant civilian deaths, than he is correct.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

However, how many of those are due to car bombings and suicide bombings carried out by Iraqis that injure Iraqis? The is one thing that I really have never understood. You're hurting your own people (and killing your fucking self for that matter).

Just thought I'd set straight what I was referring to.
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 1:27 pm
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Jonny2K

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Wow. All I meant was, "If these pics are so unsettling, think of how appalling it must be to be dealing with this shit irl." (Admittedly, politicized a bit.)

There's no question Iraq and the rest of the world are better off without Saddam Hussein and his psycho offspring. However, even George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld admit that, as it turns out, there was no pre-war connection between S.H., Iraq, and Al-Qaida. (Although there certainly is now!)

On the thinnest of evidence, the U.S. has gotten involved (with minimal international support) in an unbelievably complicated post-war quagmire. I don't think there's anybody in the world (let alone running for President) who has a plan that will get the U.S out of Iraq, put a popularly elected government in place, and end the terrorist insurgency any time soon. I fully expect this to be an issue in the 2008 campaign.

The Viet Nam experience was not a history lesson to me. I was fortunate enough to be able to avoid being there -- but I was around to absorb the coverage of that war (which was much more comprehensively covered than this one) and its impact on the American people and American politics. The similarities between the conflicts are terribly disheartening.
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 3:10 pm
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LordDefile

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Jonny2K wrote:
Wow. All I meant was, "If these pics are so unsettling, think of how appalling it must be to be dealing with this shit irl." (Admittedly, politicized a bit.)

There's no question Iraq and the rest of the world are better off without Saddam Hussein and his psycho offspring. However, even George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld admit that, as it turns out, there was no pre-war connection between S.H., Iraq, and Al-Qaida. (Although there certainly is now!)

On the thinnest of evidence, the U.S. has gotten involved (with minimal international support) in an unbelievably complicated post-war quagmire. I don't think there's anybody in the world (let alone running for President) who has a plan that will get the U.S out of Iraq, put a popularly elected government in place, and end the terrorist insurgency any time soon. I fully expect this to be an issue in the 2008 campaign.

The Viet Nam experience was not a history lesson to me. I was fortunate enough to be able to avoid being there -- but I was around to absorb the coverage of that war (which was much more comprehensively covered than this one) and its impact on the American people and American politics. The similarities between the conflicts are terribly disheartening.


That's cool, and I can see your point, no doubt. However, I HATE to see whiny fuckin reservists who are like "Oh shit, I can't go to war", when they knew DAMN well going into it that it was a distinct possibility.
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 3:14 pm
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Jonny2K

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LordDefile wrote:
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However, I HATE to see whiny fuckin reservists who are like "Oh shit, I can't go to war", when they knew DAMN well going into it that it was a distinct possibility.


In general, I agree with you. Theoretically, they knew the risks they were accepting when they signed up. Whether they knew then what they know now isn't really a factor in whether or not they've got to do what they signed up to do.

But I try to be understanding when I look at them and realize that they truly didn't have any idea what might be asked of them. I wouldn't trade places, would you?
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 4:26 pm
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boostjunkie

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Reminds me of the burnt bodies of the iraqi soldiers when I was over there during Desert Storm. Sux to be them !
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 5:26 pm
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I would post some pic's from during the war, makes those look tame. However, up till now we have kept most of our pictures inhouse. Saddly those photos are more common then rare. Not sure currently, but the worst detail you can have is cleaning up dead bodies days after they are killed so that the outside of the FOB does not have limbs and eyes all around it.
PostThu Oct 28, 2004 7:52 pm
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